Speaking With Joy Lere: Winning The Mental Game of Money And Life

About Joy Lere

Dr. Joy Lere is a leading expert in the psychology of money. She is a licensed clinical psychologist and co-founder of Shaping Wealth. Dr. Lere has held research and clinical positions at Penn Medicine Princeton Health, Children's National Medical Center, and the Department of Defense. She has served as an Assistant Clinical Professor in Clinical Psychology at George Washington University. You can follow Joy on Twitter @joylerepsyd , learn more about her at joylere.com or stay up to date with her writing on Substack.

1) As a clinical psychologist by training, you see people trying their best to deal with all sorts of psychological challenges. When it comes to finance and money, what are the frequent issues you often see people trying to manage?

The human experience of money is complicated for everyone. When people start psychotherapy, financial stress typically isn't their "presenting issue", but as people share their stories with me, money often becomes part of the picture. How can it not? It's tied to safety, security, trust, power, control, status and legacy. It's part of our relationship with work. It's present in our relationships with peers and partners.

When people talk with me about money in therapy, we are talking about lots of things that go beyond what's happening in their bank account or brokerage account — anxiety, conflict, identity, self worth, self sabotage and freedom.

2) You're one of the co-founders of Shaping Wealth, a company whose expressed mission is to help individuals create "funded contentment". Tell us a bit about your role within the company.

Shaping Wealth is leading the wealth management industry into the second wave of behavioral finance. It's time to move beyond biases. Our team is equipping advisors with all they need in order to develop cutting-edge, human-centric advice practices. Each of our training and coaching experiences is carefully designed to elevate advisor EQ. I get to help advisors become better versions of themselves. For too long the issue of advisor wellbeing has been ignored. This oversight has been to the detriment of advisors and clients alike. Shaping Wealth is changing that. We're committed to helping advisors flourish professionally and personally.

"When people talk to me about money, we're talking about lots of things go beyond what's happening in their bank account or brokerage account..."

3) There's a weird connection between productivity and anxiety that many people struggle to balance. How do you advise people to treat with this?

There's a psychological phenomenon captured in the Yerkes-Dodson Law that empirically shows our performance increases with stress but only to a certain point. When mental arousal is too low or too high our performance tanks. Fear, shame, anxiety and stress are suboptimal human motivators. They can burn us out. We aren't our best selves when our brains are on overdrive trying to fend off perceived threats. It's important to care about our performance. We need to invest. One of the keys of learning to perform at our peak is finding our individual sweet spot of pressure. When we've identified that, then it is important to ensure that the sources of our internal and external drive are healthy — not destructive or discouraging.

If you are experiencing anxiety or panic, it's important not to buy into the myth that it is helping you succeed. Leaving significant symptoms unaddressed and untreated only holds you back. Addressing anxiety doesn't lead to complacency — quite the opposite! It frees you up to be more creative and allows you to be more effective. We all perform better when we aren't distracted, exhausted or caught in a mental spiral of worry.

4) Part of your work involves helping people overcome limiting beliefs -- either about the world or themselves. What are some common limiting beliefs that you see, and how do you help individuals surmount them?

The stories we tell ourselves are some of the most powerful we will ever listen to. Common limiting beliefs are:

1. I will be happier if I have more__________

2. If I can't do it perfectly, I shouldn't do it at all

3. I must be liked by everyone

4. I am responsible for other peoples' feelings

5. Negative emotions are bad

6. Failure is something to be avoided

7. I don't have enough time to____________

8. I am worthy because of what I do

When it comes to dismantling the beliefs that hold us back, it's important to understand where they come from, and examine how they are currently serving us (or not). We have a tendency to self-select evidence to support the stories we believe about ourselves, other people, and the world around us. If something happens that doesn't confirm our current way of thinking, we are quick to toss it out. To develop a new narrative we need new evidence. I often tell people to step back and look for exceptions to their ideas that they are clinging to.

5) What practical advice would you give someone trying to navigate major inflection points in their life: career, parenting, business, etc?

Go to therapy! We become the best version of ourselves when we have someone helping us see our blind spots. You are your most valuable asset. It's crucial that you are investing in your emotional wellbeing. Your mental health impacts every aspect of your life — physical, spiritual and financial health.

Psychotherapy can change the course of your life compass by a couple degrees — it may seem subtle at the time, but a couple degrees will alter your trajectory and completely change your final destination.

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